Part 532s – Smith Robertson Genealogy – Smith FTDNA Y-DNA 111 – DYS Values Returned

Greetings,

The first set of the Smith DNA Y-Chromosome Segment (DYS) values have been returned. These are the results of the Smith Family Tree DNA Y-DNA 111 markers tests. I have included all results in the following listing. But in order to understand what you are looking at, I have found some definitions that may help.

Locus – A specific spot in the genome. A variable locus will have several possible alleles. (From Family Tree DNA)

DYS# – DNA Y-Chromosome Segment (DYS): A nomenclature system which assigns DYS numbers to numbers to newly discovered markers. They are the “names” of each marker. (From Family Tree DNA)

Alleles – One of the different forms of a gene that can exist at a single locus. Since mutations in the allele value occur very slowly with time, one should see the same allele value for a male and his great-grandfather for example. (From Family Tree DNA)

The theory and idea is that one should be able to compare one’s DYS values to other individuals to see how closely or distantly one may have shared a common ancestor. The more DYS markers’ alleles match between two individuals, with the same or variation of a similar surname, the greater the probability that the two individuals may share a common ancestor. (But of course, there could be a chance that the two individuals do NOT share a same surname due to some earlier incidence as adoption, name change, etc..)

The supposed example would be that as any immediate Smith male relative who shares the same common ancestor, great-great-great-grandfather James Smith, one would expect that anyone of them would have the similar allele results. And here are the 111 results.

Locus	1	2	3	4	5	6	7	8	9	10	11	12
DYS#	393	390	19	391	385a	385b	426	388	439	389-1	392	389-2
Alleles	12	24	14	11	11	15	12	12	12	13	13	29

Locus	13	14	15	16	17	18	19	20	21	22	23	24	25
DYS#	458	459a	459b	455	454	447	437	448	449	464a	464b	464c	464d
Alleles	17	9	9	11	11	24	16	19	30	14	15	17	17

Locus	26	27	28	29	30	31	32	33	34	35	36	37
DYS#	460	GATA H4	YCA IIa	YCA IIb	456	607	576	570	CDYa	CDYb	442	438
Alleles	11	11	19	23	15	17	18	18	37	43	13	12

Locus	38	39	40	41	42	43	44	45	46	47
DYS#	531	578	395S1a	395S1b	390	537	641	472	406S1	511
Alleles	11	9	15	16	8	11	10	8	10	11

Locus	48	49	50	51	52	53	54	55	56	57	58	59	60
DYS#	425	413a	413b	557	594	436	490	534	450	444	481	520	446
Alleles	12	23	23	16	10	12	12	14	8	12	22	20	13

Locus	61	62	63	64	65	66	67
DYS#	617	568	487	572	640	492	565
Alleles	12	11	13	12	11	12	12

Locus	68	69	70	71	72	73	74	75
DYS#	710	485	632	495	540	714	716	717
Alleles	34	16	9	16	12	25	26	19

Locus	76	77	78	79	80	82	83	84	85
DYS#	505	556	549	589	522	494	533	636	575	638
Alleles	12	11	12	12	10	9	12	12	10	11

Locus	86	87	88	89	90	91	92	93
DYS#	462	452	445	GATA A10	463	441	GGAAT 1B07	525
Alleles	11	30	12	13	23	14	10	10

Locus	94	95	96	97	98	99	100	101	102
DYS#	712	593	650	532	715	504	513	561	552
Alleles	21	15	19	12	24	19	12	15	24

Locus	103	104	105	106	107	108	109	110	111
DYS#	726	635	587	643	497	510	434	461	435
Alleles	12	23	18	10	14	18	9	11	11

To date I have received notification from Family Tree DNA that there is two matches, Denny and Thomas Seymour whose results may match 63 of my 67 Markers, with a Genetic Distance of 3. This is a fairly close match and does present a great probability of a possible common ancestor. Interpreting the results this may mean that in 20 generations or somewhere in the vicinity of 400 years, or approximately 1611 we could realize a common ancestor.

Now in our case we have a Smith matching against a Seymour… Not possible you say? Most definitely possible. Someone changed the surname. Denny has traced his paternal line to a Richard Seymour who was born approximately 27 January 1605 in Sawbridgeworth, Hertfordshire, England. Per the research, Richard Seymour’s father was Robert Seymer who was born in the same location at about 30 November 1573. Further study has revealed that the surname may have also been written as Seamer and Semer. So bottom line, someone could have changed the name to Smith.

A Genetic Distance, as defined by Family Tree DNA - Genetic Distance is the number of differences, or mutations, between two sets of results. A genetic distance of zero means there are no differences in the results being compared against one another, i.e., an exact match. This is the meaning when comparing Y-chromosome DNA or mitochondrial DNA. This is the computed total, from what I understand of the differences be the alleles from two different test participants. In other word if my Smith Locus 94 of DYS #712 scored "20" and the Seymour's Locus 94 of DYS #712 scored "30", the difference between 20 and 30 is equal to a Genetic Difference of 10.

In the current matching, the case with our Smith and the Seymour participants, the Genetic Distance can be written to say that based on the results there is a greater than 99.41% chance that there may be a common ancestor at about 20 generations or around the year 1611, give or take a few years.

The results of the Smith Y-DNA 111 Markers are in. We are now just waiting for the results to the Seymour Y-DNA 111 testing. With the increased information we will be able to see what the Genetic Distance will be calculated.

Enjoy,

Jim

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Part 465sr – Smith Robertson Genealogy – How Common Is Common?

Good day,



From time-to-time and as I get new DNA information, I try to contact anyone who has been reported to me by Family Tree DNA as a possible genetic Match. This is just in case that there may be a chance of some connection hiding on some limb on some branch in my ever-growing Family Tree.

The Matches, in the search for my genealogy and ancestry, that I attempt to contact in order to explore the possibility of finding a “Most Common Ancestor” are usually at the upper scales of the provided results. This means that if there is a reported Match for my YDNA results, I will try to get in touch with those who are matched at the 25 Marker or more levels. The other criteria are that the Match should have no more than a Genetic Distance of 3. There is a fair write-up of a definition of Genetic distance available at Wikipedia.

To date the best two Matches have been at the 67 Marker level where our YDNA has a Genetic Distance of 3. This means that we match at least 64 of 67 Markers. It also means that there is about a 97.01% probability that within 16 generations there may be a shared common ancestor. The surname of both these Matches is “Seymour”. We also know that prior to “Seymour” the preceding surname may have been “Semer”. I suppose at anytime our ancestors could have changed their surname to "Smith"... We certainly do it today.

Today we know that the surnames, or derivative surnames, that have originated from our ggg-grandparents James and Mary Ann (née Doret) Smith include: Smith; Lloydsmith; Lloyd-Smith; Malins-Smith; and Landreth-Smith. (And I am not including the varying use of upper- and lower-case letters.) I am recording every possible descendant derivation as may find. One thing, based on the scientific data, all males descended from ggg-grandfather James Smith will all have the same YDNA result – R1b1b2a.

As you can see from the Ancestry DNA chart that I created in Part 464rs, I have been able to collect the YDNA and mtDNA of all my immediate paternal and maternal grandparents. Paternal line – Smith >YDNA = R1b1b2a; Abraham et al >mtDNA = J1b1. Maternal line – Robertson > YDNA = R1b1b1*; Robertson et al > H1a1.

The issue is, I have the most common name in the English language – Jim Smith. Also the surname Robertson is not necessarily uncommon. I also have three of the most common of European DNA Haplogroupings possible – R1b1b2a; R1b1b1*; and H1a1. This of course opens the “flood gates” for me to have to sift through the numbers of records of results that to date have been produced.

Apart from all the research that I am currently now doing, I have been following a possible lead with a Smith line from Logie, Scotland, who were also in Grenada. I have not been able to connect to the Smiths in 1760’s to 1781’s generation but there is “a possible and logical leap”. As the time goes, I am trying to research as to whether the James Smith, who was born 19 April 1767 and subsequently died in Grenada in about 1796/7, could have possibly been my ggg-grandfather James Smith’s father. But the gap does exist and am yet to find the bridge. You can see a Descendant Chart of the Smiths of Logie, Scotland at this link.

So in my search and research, I ask the question “How common is common?”

Regards,

Jim

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